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Keegan
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PostSubject: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:21 pm

Describe how you brake, downshift, turn, accelerate, and exit a corner. Are you in the gear you need before entering the corner. What about decreasing corners where you'll be down shifting while cornering...explain.

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I know one thing I do that has really helped...it's a tip that i never really thought about until I tried it. I got it from my Dad's friend that is a BMW driving instructor. He said when taking a corner, let's say a right hander, push up with your left hand on the wheel(assuming you drive with a proper 10/2 or 9/3 grip) vs pulling down with your right so much. He said that when you just use your right hand in this case, it's assisted by gravity and you have less control than your left hand/arm which is pushing up...putting your arm muscles in charge. It really works and makes for a much smoother and more controlled turn and as a result smoothing driving line.

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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:07 pm

Very fast..

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Keegan
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:29 pm

i knew i should have posted that if anyone posts something stupid I will delete it...and there's why

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:41 pm

1) Approach the corner from the far outside shoulder.
2) Brake smoothly to 100% traction and downshift using a heel/toe technique for engine braking assist.
3) Shift hands to account for the turn ... you want a near 3 and 9 hand position in the turn ... don't "cross up."
4) Bleed off about 50% brake pressure and turn in just before you reach your entry speed. Turn in earlier than you think you should for most corners until you are well practiced.
5) Use the first 15% of the turn to bleed off the rest of the brakes smoothly (trailbraking).
6) Slowly ease on the throttle just before the apex.
7) Hit the apex and smoothly transition to 100% throttle in the next 10% of the turn while aiming for your exit point on the outside shoulder.
Cool Transition hands back to the straight line positions while smoothly unwinding the wheel and exiting the corner.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:45 pm

I've never purposefully downshifted in a decreasing radius corner. I'd much rather rev a little high or drop out of boost a little on exit than shift in the corner. You're very likely to botch your line or lose traction if you try shifting in the corner. Most of the time you can shift down in the braking zone and find a gear that will suit the corner unless you've got extremely tight gearing.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:47 pm

(Damn not being able to edit!)

If you find a decreasing radius corner that's tight enough to require another downshift, I'd recommend taking 2 apexes so you can have a second braking/shift zone.

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Jake
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:56 pm

yeah i was gonna say, fast in faster out

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wagunz_pwn
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:15 pm

I was gonna say...with reckless abandonment; sorry.
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Jake
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:17 pm

to be honest i can't remember. i need to get back into something worthwhile to take into corners.

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Grocery Grip
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:26 pm

Keegan wrote:
i knew i should have posted that if anyone posts something stupid I will delete it...and there's why

Dude,

you know good and well that jason isn't specific about ANYTHING....lol

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:58 pm

Outside shoulder.

Downshift using heel\toe for use of engine braking as well as my FF-ness doesnt like take corners in low rpm. It causes unpredictable steering issues.

Apex in the proper gear, I neither on the brakes nor on the gas for a spilt second.

Right after the apex I ease onto the gas to prevent understeer.

For decreasing raduis turns I usually try to turn them into a late apex. I do all the same things expect for I coast into the corner while in the proper gear while covering the brakes. If the corner ends up being sharp enough that I need to downshift I heel\toe into the proper gear. I usually end up having to tap the brakes right before the apex.
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Grocery Grip
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:30 pm

Slow in, Fast out

P.S.- I wrecked my 04 subbie in 05 when i switched the wording around...lol

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SPARTA
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:45 pm

Yea I do the arm thing you mentioned Keegan. I find I brake late, and cut in as close as I can to the Apex of the turn, sometimes over the white line on right turns, or right against the yellow on left. Coming out of the Apex I accelerate and let the momentum take me to the opposite line of the Apex after exiting.


On close turns I usually power through, countersteering if the car slides a little bit. Kinda like how I drive at Andrettis through the first 3 turns, but a little less drift.

I recently have been practicing heel toe so we'll see how that goes.

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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:47 pm

Ha, yea I just read what bubbles wrote. Its the text book version of what I was trying to say.

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J_P
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:57 pm

same as what has already been stated...
1. start wide
2. find a visual line from there to the apex and stick it
3. brake and heel toe into the appropriate gear before the APEX
4. apply power at the Apex and hold on
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:18 pm

~The_Duke~ wrote:
Apex in the proper gear, I neither on the brakes nor on the gas for a spilt second.

For decreasing raduis turns I usually try to turn them into a late apex. I do all the same things expect for I coast into the corner while in the proper gear while covering the brakes. If the corner ends up being sharp enough that I need to downshift I heel\toe into the proper gear. I usually end up having to tap the brakes right before the apex.

The coast part is something I didn't mention but is very important. I'm glad you reminded me. Most of my experience these days is on a virtual course, but the biggest issue I see there is people not wanting to coast. They ride the brakes too long or power on too early. The prior makes you slow, the latter puts you in the sand on exit.

I noticed this a LOT at Daytona where it took a conscious effort to coast after turning in to the International Horseshoe. If you power on too early you overshoot the exit by a huge margin since it's a sweeping 180º corner. I had similar issues at the Bus Stop.

Another thing to consider is a phrase I've heard a lot ... "if you aren't on the throttle at the apex, you are late." This means that you are not on the brakes or coasting at the apex ... if you are, you have lost speed on the next straight. This doesn't mean 100% throttle ... but slight acceleration at least by the apex.

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:29 pm

Fast is smooth and smooth is fast, and the coasting and easing into the throttle helps ALOT IMO.
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:35 pm

Braking is always my biggest flaw. Squeese the brakes in and out ... don't punch and sidestep. And it's amazing what trailbraking can do for your turn in.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:36 pm

Another thing is your state of mind ... you want to be mentally alert and physically relaxed. If you're all white-knuckled, you're doing it wrong.

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mazeroth
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:40 pm

[quote="TouringBubble"]
~The_Duke~ wrote:
but the biggest issue I see there is people not wanting to coast.

My dad was telling me that after he rode with me this past weekend. He also mention and I agree with him, I take too long to accelerate after a curve and I need more work on braking.
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:46 pm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/STI-and-Evo-mountain-run_195208.htm

That was a cold day so not optimal grip, but that's my mountain style on 19/129 and you can hear shifting and see my brake lights too Smile . This is with regards to an AWD car:

Pretty much it depends on the corner, but:

1: Heel/toe shifting during braking. I never shift in a corner, except maybe exiting if not enough RPM.
2: I don't brake as late in the mts as I do at the track, basically for safety, but there are 2 things I do:
A: Quick turn in/short corners: Brake hard and straight/shift if needed, release and turn in. Right foot is on the throttle holding it neutral. Before the apex I get on the throttle, usually full bore if the corner allows, and AWD pulls the car through the apex and out. Steer into the oversteer if needed.
B: Decreasing radius or sweepers/long corners I trail brake. It tends to plant the nose and avoid understeer but has to be done carefully. My right foot is on the gas while late-braking holding it neutral while slowly coming off the brake. In the middle of a sweeper, I play with the throttle gently, and sometimes throttle/brake by rocking my foot and feel for the limit. Ease on the throttle at the apex and steer into the oversteer coming out if needed.
3: I try not to shift hand position but I do it sometimes in the mountains @ certain corners.
4: Keep both hands on the wheel and off the shift knob.
5: Keep your foot off the clutch unless making a shift.

Good tips:

1: Start on the outside of a corner, but DON'T turn in too early! Guaranteed understeer and loss of exit speed. Likewise don't turn late by not looking ahead.
2: Look ahead as far as you can. You'll know when to turn in when you're looking ahead at/for the apex.
3: Don't yank your foot off the throttle when you screw up a corner. Learn to ease off/on and find the neutral balance of the car. Trust your car's neutral point even if you're ready to panic.
4: Know what your car does at limits. Probably the most important thing to being safe and fast. I think autocross is great for this.

Specific to STI: they will tend to understeer in decreasing radius conditions or if you blow the apex. If you ease off the gas a little and hold the line, the car will correct itself and you can throttle out. If you lift-throttle during understeer, it will understeer more, then suddenly transition into oversteer which you should expect and be ready to catch with the wheel by turning into it then getting on-throttle so the car doesn't tail-wag after. If you're not ready, you're going to spin or over-correct and spin the other direction. Best thing about the STI/Evo is that you can mash-throttle pre-apex and use the throttle position to stay out of trouble in-corner.

C
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:50 pm

thank you sir!

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Keegan
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:52 pm

2thAche wrote:

2: Look ahead as far as you can. You'll know when to turn in when you're looking ahead at/for the apex.
3: Don't yank your foot off the throttle when you screw up a corner. Learn to ease off/on and find the neutral balance of the car. Trust your car's neutral point even if you're ready to panic.
4: Know what your car does at limits. Probably the most important thing to being safe and fast. I think autocross is great for this.

really good tips

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:36 pm

Ya looking forward is a VERY good habit to get into, I need to practice that as well.
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PostSubject: Re: I'm curious how everyone takes corners...   Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:46 pm

dont do what i do.... apparently it gets you in da woods....
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