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leadfoot_mf
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PostSubject: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:07 am

Anybody Trail Brake i do all the time always have so not a big deal to me. but some people are scared of it.
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Keegan
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:09 am

I honestly have no idea what it is. Maybe I do it and just don't know. Prob not.

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Keegan
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:21 am

ok looked it up...

"In 4-wheel vehicles trail braking pertains to using the brakes past
the corner entrance (as opposed to the normally taught practice of
releasing the brakes before starting the turn). This practice is used
for creating weight transfer towards the front tires, thus increasing
their traction and reducing understeer. It works best in light vehicles
that have their brake bias to the front.

In order to be properly performed, the driver must have excellent
sense of the vehicle's behavior and be able to keep the braking effort
within very tight limits. Excessive braking effort may result in the
vehicle heavily understeering, or - if the brake bias is set to nearly
neutral - in the rear wheels locking, effectively causing the vehicle
to spin as in a handbrake turn.

Once a driver has mastered trail braking, it can help enter the
corners at higher speeds, or avoid an accident if the driver has
entered a corner at a speed exceeding the vehicle's (or driver's)
capabilities."


So basically I do this alot but usually on corners i'm not expecting. They should just call it normal driving, it's not anything special in cars.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:00 am

It's much different on a track than on the street. It's different because you have to think much differently ... you have to multitask.

Basically, the common though process is
1) brake
2) turn
3) accel

We think those through in order and one at a time, that's why you have to consciously make yourself trail brake. You turn in just as you are backing off the brakes, which is unnerving.

You can turn in much harder w/o understeer since you are controlling the weight balance toward the front tires and increasing grip. This is a delicate balance since your are also taking weight and traction from the rear, which can result in a spin.

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:06 pm

The only time that you should avoid trail braking is if you are having brake heat issues or you are having some hardcore understeer problems.

That is what my experience has taught me.

When my car was stock trail braking was a VERY bad idea. Now with proper tires, rear sway bar, and upgraded brake parts to control heat issues. It isnt bad anymore.
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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:55 pm

I would think that trail braking would be used as good way to try and overtake another car during or before a corner, if that makes any sense. only on the track of course
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:34 pm

Lonewolfjulez wrote:
I would think that trail braking would be used as good way to try and overtake another car during or before a corner, if that makes any sense. only on the track of course

That technique is called "passing under braking" If you know if you have a run on them it is a very good way to pass, however if you come in to hot you risk getting repassed if you dont do it with the right line.
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SPARTA
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:35 pm

^^ hence what I do at andretti's, with the occasional "bump"

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:07 pm

SPARTA wrote:
^^ hence what I do at andretti's, with the occasional "bump"

"bump" my a**, you spear people... lol
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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:35 pm

yeah i believe it, Dana is the devil spawn on the track
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:39 pm

the hard part also is timing, so you don't scrub off too much speed or go in too hot. less margin for error.
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slowwrx




PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 1:34 am

If you drive an EVO or WRX and you don't trail brake you aren't going fast enough. These cars really only turn well on the brakes.
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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 11:05 am

are there any left foot brakers out there? lol
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specVance
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 12:15 pm

slowwrx wrote:
If you drive an EVO or WRX and you don't trail brake you aren't going fast enough. These cars really only turn well on the brakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=curEWaIOKMY

a buddy showed me this and it is exactly what you are talking about. haha
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specVance
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 12:27 pm

oh and I can only do it a little bit and on occasion in this sentra. Do not want the tail to get o happy on me.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 3:24 pm

Vance you need to be more worried about your front coming lose on you judging from what I saw last time were up there.

With the Spec Vs really only need to worry about the rear coming out on decreasing radius and constant radius corners. Understeer is going to be your issue on the other corners.

For decreasing and constant radius corners trail braking is going to cause more oversteer anyway.
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slowwrx




PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 11:42 pm

You usually use trail braking to cause oversteer in decreasing and constant radius corners where the car won't rotate properly.
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KINGWREX
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Tue May 12, 2009 11:50 pm

i do this alot. remember the wrb on the hellbender video from the dragon 2 years ago.
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Wed May 13, 2009 2:29 pm

The trick is not to Rotate off the Road.. LOL

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Wed May 13, 2009 5:59 pm

slowwrx wrote:
You usually use trail braking to cause oversteer in decreasing and constant radius corners where the car won't rotate properly.

Or when the car is set up for general understeer. Trail braking gives much sharper turn in.

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slowwrx




PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Wed May 13, 2009 6:03 pm

TouringBubble wrote:
slowwrx wrote:
You usually use trail braking to cause oversteer in decreasing and constant radius corners where the car won't rotate properly.

Or when the car is set up for general understeer. Trail braking gives much sharper turn in.

This is going to sound kind of Dick but

I've never met anyone fast who set their car up to understeer.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Wed May 13, 2009 7:10 pm

Car setup is all about personal preferance really. If you can make your setup go fast, that is what counts.
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slowwrx




PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Thu May 14, 2009 12:56 am

~The_Duke~ wrote:
Car setup is all about personal preferance really. If you can make your setup go fast, that is what counts.

Oh I agree, I'm just saying you never hear the really fast guys talking about setting their car up to push. I think some people tend to lean on it as a crutch because oversteer scares them. I'm totally opposite of that I like my car to not only oversteer but I like it to be extremly loose on turn in. That combo scares a lot of people because the car usually makes big moves before it settles.

Matt
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SPARTA
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Thu May 14, 2009 7:02 am

Yea Im more scared of understeer than oversteer

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Trail Braking   Sat May 16, 2009 3:30 pm

slowwrx wrote:
TouringBubble wrote:
slowwrx wrote:
You usually use trail braking to cause oversteer in decreasing and constant radius corners where the car won't rotate properly.

Or when the car is set up for general understeer. Trail braking gives much sharper turn in.

This is going to sound kind of Dick but

I've never met anyone fast who set their car up to understeer.

This reference was mostly about restricted racing classes or people in mostly stock cars that are just out having fun. Not ever class has the option to completely remove the push, nor does every "every-once-in-a-while" track visitor care to have a racing setup on their vehicle. I think it's a valid statement.

But, you are right ... if you are setting up a car to be fast, you want it pretty neutral with rotation on demand and slight oversteer when pushed hard.

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