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 I learned some things this weekend...

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:20 pm

Everytime drive this thing hard I learn something new about how handle it and drive it better, but Ia m curious to see what some like minded people have to say about it.

So I was having a good ol time with the DCCD while autoxing. I start out with AUTO, and I run a good time. I lead my class for 1 run. It handled good, but it pushed pretty hardcore when I entered even the slightest bit to fast. That is 100% for this car stock from what I have read, so I decided to try 85% (setting right under 'lock') to see if I could get the car to rotate better with alil more in the rear.

Oh buddy it rotated, it rotated quite while. I was alil a*s out, but nothing wild I was able to get it to catch when I wanted it to which shot me right out of the corner quite well. However, I exited the corner to fast for the saloam and DNF'd cas I couldnt get it to turn fast enough to get the 2nd saloom cone.

I was told by quite a few folks to just leave it on auto and dont fiddle with it, but my best time was with it on the 65% (2 under 'lock') which is the one that I use in the mountains. My best time was dirty thoug cas I murdered the sh*t of a cone due to some understeer.

I think after learning to deal with raw-ness of the 85% setting it would be best, but I will have to dail it up from the 65% setting that I seem to be best with at the moment

Your thoughts?


This was where was getting my numbers on the lock ratio at BTW.

PS all season tires dont like heat... I think I took about 6000 miles off those bad boys sunday... lol
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Jake
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:47 pm

yeah dont mess with the DCCD until you have better tires and suspension. until your fully setup otherwise (tires, suspension, etc) for autocross mountain runs i don't know that its necessary till that point

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:52 pm

What I noticed going from auto to the other settings is the understeer was ALOT easier to control, where with auto once you started plowing the only other option was to lift really hard or tap the brakes. With the 2 DCCD settings I tried, I was able to muscle through and rotate the car with the thorrtle much easier which then I was able to shave alil bit of time off my runs by doing so. Auto is easier, but I do think a stock car can benifit from fiddling with the DCCD.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:54 pm

I would edit, but I cant.

Better tires and susp. in general is needed regardless of what you do witht he DCCD, and you will see more noticable results after tires and susp. upgrade when using the DCCD.
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bomjoon
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:28 pm

keep the setting to one setting and play with suspension parts. i think it would be easier to control the way the car drives that way.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:51 pm

I dont have any susp. parts bought yet though... lol It is stock.
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RoMe
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:14 pm

My instructor at GCAC in Fl drives a fully setup STU STI and he told me that he never messes with the DCCD, I dont think that I have ever even DD'ed ever in anything other than auto.

If you want more rear end rotation go with a big rear sway and stay with a stock sized front and change up you tire pressure. Thats pretty much my setup and my car rotates hard but you can feel where it starts to step out to hard.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:16 pm

Ya my first mod is going to be sways or coilovers for sure, I was just wondering if anyone at all messed with it or not.
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07ltd#767
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:42 pm

like everybody's been saying, keep it in auto. I've read horror stories of people messing with that and blowing center diffs.

btw, if you want oversteer, go rotated Very Happy
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:46 pm

Really? Blowing center diffs? Hmmm... What caused it to blow? Just to much pressure on the parts after locking the axles back there I guess.
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07ltd#767
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:59 pm

when you use manual mode you're locking the diff...cars aren't designed to do that (unless they're 4x4's or 1970's muscle). If you lock the diff and take a turn to slowly, you're going to be dragging something in the drivetrain. IIRC the manual mode is only supposed to be used on gravel / snow, not on asphalt
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:07 pm

The LOCK setting locks the diff, but the 85%, 65%, etc. ratio settings create a situation like you would have in a clutch type dif if I am not mistaken?

Plus you dont use the manual settings when you are going to slow, you turn on right before you take off. That is a good way to destory tires as well.
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:39 am

I'll admit that I'm not "learned" on the DCCD setup, but I believe you guys have the wrong idea about how the lock works.

Even in auto mode, the center diff will still lock. It will just choose the amount of lock for the situation. I really don't think it would go full lock in a straight line and then to 0% any time you turn ... that would be useless and the only way to prevent damage if it works as many of you are suggesting.

I know that the Evo always runs a percentage of lock on the center diff. With the 3 settings on the '05+, you can select almost full lock (Tarmac) or less lock (Gravel, Snow). I'm pretty sure that the Tarmac setting is in the 85%-90% range, and you don't see Evo's trashing center diffs on the street.

I wouldn't recommend running 100% lock as that can cause strain on the drivetrain, but otherwise the diff should slip like you mention Duke.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:43 am

Oh, forgot to mention, even with the center diff 100% locked, you still have the front and rear diffs slipping left to right to correct for wheel speed. That's what you don't get tire chirp when tuning at 100% lock. The system is designed to work this way ... use it.

And to think ... many Subaru guys talk about Evo's "driving themselves." That's funny since most everyone leaves the DCCD in Auto and lets it drive itself. lol.

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Erv
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:52 am

what understeer is this you speak of? my car is very tail happy in auto. Only time it understeers is when you go in too hot and you make it to bleed off speed
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Z Infidel
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:05 am

Man, my car has one button: TCS on/off. Damn super high tech AWD turbo muthafuggas...
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:54 am

Wangan_X wrote:
what understeer is this you speak of? my car is very tail happy in auto. Only time it understeers is when you go in too hot and you make it to bleed off speed

But once you go in hot it won't stop pushing. I know that for a fact!

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:58 pm

TouringBubble wrote:
I'll admit that I'm not "learned" on the DCCD setup, but I believe you guys have the wrong idea about how the lock works.

Even in auto mode, the center diff will still lock. It will just choose the amount of lock for the situation. I really don't think it would go full lock in a straight line and then to 0% any time you turn ... that would be useless and the only way to prevent damage if it works as many of you are suggesting.

I know that the Evo always runs a percentage of lock on the center diff. With the 3 settings on the '05+, you can select almost full lock (Tarmac) or less lock (Gravel, Snow). I'm pretty sure that the Tarmac setting is in the 85%-90% range, and you don't see Evo's trashing center diffs on the street.

I wouldn't recommend running 100% lock as that can cause strain on the drivetrain, but otherwise the diff should slip like you mention Duke.

That is my understanding as well, the dif's locking ablity is one of the main differences between the WRX and STi. The STI even has an open dif setting.

I think the only setting you shouldnt use on pavement is the 'lock' setting which locks all 4 axles, and I agree that setting should only be used on gravel, ice, or snow.

I may be new at this whole AWD thing, but I have done alil home work Very Happy lol
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bomjoon
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:38 pm

weld it for the full 100% lock.
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:43 pm

~The_Duke~ wrote:
That is my understanding as well, the dif's locking ablity is one of the main differences between the WRX and STi. The STI even has an open dif setting.

I think the only setting you shouldnt use on pavement is the 'lock' setting which locks all 4 axles, and I agree that setting should only be used on gravel, ice, or snow.

I may be new at this whole AWD thing, but I have done alil home work Very Happy lol

The 100% lock doesn't lock all 4 axles. We're talking about the center diff here, not the front and rear diffs. Locking the center to 100% will mean that the front and rear will spin together, but the individual front a rear diffs can still adjust left to right for slip.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:44 pm

(wish I could edit)

You'd have to lock the front or rear diffs to get tire hop in corners.

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:47 pm

Ah ok, I got ya. It just feels like it does when you try to turn it lol

So witht that said I feel much better about using my DCCD at 65% and 85% lock ratio Very Happy

The thing I notice going from auto to 65% or 85% is once you start pushing you can make it over steer to correct your angle MUCH easier than you can on auto, you just have to be prepared for the rear end to bite really hard and shoot you into the direction you are pointed.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:48 pm

TouringBubble wrote:
(wish I could edit)

You'd have to lock the front or rear diffs to get tire hop in corners.

When I forget to turn the DCCD off when toodling in parking lots after my autox runs it will do tire hop while you are turning to roll into a parking spot.
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:56 pm

Really ... hmmmm. Interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: I learned some things this weekend...   Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:51 pm

I was dicking around in a dirt parking lot a while ago and had it set on 'lock' and I could feel it not unlocking and chirping both front and rear. I am pretty sure it locks them, I just dont have any documentation to support this.
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