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specVance
Touge Apprentice



PostSubject: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:36 am

While it may be hard to hear, and we all know bom has no flaws, I think we can all benefit from constructive criticism(in all of life.) But since this is a touge forum if there is anyhting you see me personally do wrong up in the mts I wouldn't mind hearing it. I assume most of us would like to become better so lets hear it for help form the homies.

We already criticize each others grammar to make it better lets do the same for driving.
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Jason
TOUGE SENSEI
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:12 am

Drive in gravel pits...

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Minnoe07
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:36 am

You beat me to it! lol
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TouringBubble
Touge Apprentice
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:37 pm

Yeah, but some people don't like to hear that stuff ... Joey, for example, can't stand hearing me tell him to use his brakes. lol.

I honestly think in this instance we should wait to be asked about things before weighing in. While me mean well, it can easily come off as cockiness ... "I can drive better and let me tell you why."

I think we could all use feedback and should ask for it.

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Keegan
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:06 pm

that's gonna be very difficult on this forum...prove me wrong

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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:14 pm

You all suck and Im teh best, not just driving at life!
and oh yeah yer face!


lol my best bom impression
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specVance
Touge Apprentice



PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:52 pm

Jason wrote:
Drive in gravel pits...


daaaaamnit
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specVance
Touge Apprentice



PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:52 pm

Lonewolfjulez wrote:
You all suck and Im teh best, not just driving at life!
and oh yeah yer face!


lol my best bom impression

hahaha
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scars_of_carma
Touge Newbie
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PostSubject: Constructive Criticism FTW   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:07 pm

specVance wrote:
While it may be hard to hear, I think we can all benefit from constructive criticism(in all of life.) But since this is a touge forum if there is anyhting you see me personally do wrong up in the mts I wouldn't mind hearing it.

You just went up a notch in my book. This is a great attitude to have!

TouringBubble wrote:
Yeah, but some people don't like to hear that stuff ... Joey, for example, can't stand hearing me tell him to use his brakes. lol.

I honestly think in this instance we should wait to be asked about things before weighing in. While me mean well, it can easily come off as cockiness ... "I can drive better and let me tell you why."

I think we could all use feedback and should ask for it.

Coaching Others
This is true, some people don't like to be coached. I admit I don't have much patience for people that aren't good listeners. Sometimes the only way to convince anyone is to prove it. Unfortunately with driving this is usually a bad idea because driving for the sake of your ego is the easiest way to make mistakes.

If someone doesn't listen (usually because they can't stand being told what to do by someone much younger) and they are slow I have no problems teaching by example. I'll say something like... if you want me to do a lap I can show you what I mean... that's a nice non-confrontational way of saying I can prove it. Usually that works to help someone take me seriously.

If someone is equal to my skill level I don't ever try and tell them I'm faster... in fact I usually begin every sentence with your good. This shows that I respect their skill which usually also means I get their respect. If I do see anything I think could be improved I won't order them to do it i'll merely suggestions and/or observations like this. Have you tried to do it this way? or the line I like to use here is a late apex.

If someone is better then me I'll admit it and keep my mouth shut. Nobody wants a passenger, much less a coach, that's in over their head. For example my most thilling rides on racetracks were in 911's, which as we all know require special skills to handle. I wouldn't dream of telling someone that owns a 911 what to do with it when I have no personal experience driving anything remotely similar.

Also, its important to respect the drivers concentration as a passenger. If he wants to talk, he'll let you know... Given the opportunity I may harass them later with lots of noob-like questions but while I'm in the car I let the driver practice in peace.

I like to think of it like this... the most important part of the car is the driver which also makes them the most important person in the car.

Myself
Personally I can't stand being coached by anyone unless its a good idea. For instance I wouldn't turn down coaching at a racing school because I have no experience racing. I'm humble enough to know that.

I'm an instinctual driver which makes coaching me very difficult. To do my best I need to relax and free my mind... as corny as that sounds. Obviously I can't do that with someone talking in my ear. In order to have full confidence in my instincts I have to focus.

It's a great feeling when your brain clicks into that higher wavelength where you know what to do and trust yourself to do it. That's what I call being high lol. You're conscious mind is still observing and learning but its not as if it's in charge anymore. You take notes that you'll digest later with mental slow-motion replays lol.

It sounds really corny to say this but adrenaline isn't a bad thing if its not released by fear. Adrenaline released by excitement at the edge of control will help you concentrate better and react faster. I believe this is what they mean when some people say that everything seems to get slower when you go faster.

Unfortunately that sort of feeling rarely happens on the touge doing 7/10th's but thats ok. I'm fine doing my thrill seeking on the racetack just don't tell me to slow down! That happened to me once on a go-cart track... I was like... are you serious? really???

Coaching from a chase car
I haven't done this personally but if I ever did a chance to run with other touge drivers this would be the best way to coach me. However on the rare occassion that I've been chasing my friends on the touge I have trouble concentrating on what I'm doing out of concern for them. I would honestly prefer to be riding with them because at least then I will worry more about myself.
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:26 pm

I see where you're coming from, but racers are a proud bunch, especially on the Touge. On a race track where people expect to have instructors, it's not that bad, but just randomly giving advise will nearly always come off a cockiness in a situation like Touge where everyone things they are awesome drivers.

I do like your notes though. Very good tips. But, pulling them off will be difficult ...

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specVance
Touge Apprentice



PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:40 pm

Lets do more ride alongs then guys. easy to see errors from the passenger seat. and I know I am only beginning to figure lines out and all that jazz
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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:15 pm

Ride a longs sound cool. But for some reason I feel more "In The Zone" when nobody is in the car with me, it just feels smoother


I dunno
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nicad
Touge Newbie
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:02 pm

you guys treat this touge stuff like it's some kind of dick waving japanese video game. relaaaaaaaaaax
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Jason
TOUGE SENSEI
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:56 pm

^so true.

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specVance
Touge Apprentice



PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:51 pm

nicad wrote:
you guys treat this touge stuff like it's some kind of dick waving japanese video game. relaaaaaaaaaax

I haven't played any of those games, mainly just cod and mario kart...
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Jake
Special award-Air force
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:36 pm

lolz. yeah this is a mountain run/touge forum. and we are serious enthusiasts, but i wouldn't say we are the most technical bunch....

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Lonewolfjulez
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:57 pm

nicad wrote:
you guys treat this touge stuff like it's some kind of dick waving japanese video game. relaaaaaaaaaax


COD and Forza for the most part
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scars_of_carma
Touge Newbie
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:51 pm

nicad wrote:
relaaaaaaaaaax

no... I refuse bounce
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Grocery Grip
Touge Apprentice
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:13 pm

bubble i think you met you match in the name of carma! He types as much as you do!


East coast vs. West coast!!

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scars_of_carma
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:35 am

Grocery Grip wrote:
bubble i think you met you match in the name of carma! He types as much as you do!

East coast vs. West coast!!

Funny how post count is based on the # of posts and not the size of the post. It should be measured on word-count or something its not fair...

Writing posts is harrrd! I'm tryyyying!!!
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:08 am

I guess I have met my match ... I'll have to step up my game. Or, I'll let Scars take the theory stuff and I'll stick with the tech postings. TWO PRONGED TYPING ATTACK!

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SANDERS
Touge Novice
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:09 pm

Knowing the roads, anticipating what's around the next turn, knowing you and your vehicles' physical limitations.... So many factorys when doing this kinda driving on the road. There are too many people on the road to try and find my limits. Finding a good running pace and being able to keep a group under control and not trying to set some land speed record every time you get on the road.

I agree with learning more about your driving abilities and learning how to improve what you feel is a week spot in your driving habits ie white knuckling the wheel, large fast movements, over corrections, not knowing your breaking threshholds.... But on the touge, You have one lane to maintain, and usually people front and rear of you. Relax and just enjoy the driving experence.
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bomjoon
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:13 pm

specVance wrote:
While it may be hard to hear, and we all know bom has no flaws, .


this +1

lol i just saw this thread. wtf.


matt. i dont use brakes cuz im in too much of a hurry and i often go into a corner waaaay too fast and tend to plow the car straight like the last time i autoxed...

besides no brakes = faster speeds... unless you get a tree in the way. lol

i do need to fix that problem though you are right.


i dont think i can have a instructor in the car with me... i would open the door and F'n kick him out while doing 100mph+
i cant stand people telling me what to do. if you pay my bills then you can tell me what to do. but other than that STFU~!
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:43 am

bomjoon wrote:

this +1

lol i just saw this thread. wtf.


matt. i dont use brakes cuz im in too much of a hurry and i often go into a corner waaaay too fast and tend to plow the car straight like the last time i autoxed...

besides no brakes = faster speeds... unless you get a tree in the way. lol

i do need to fix that problem though you are right.


i dont think i can have a instructor in the car with me... i would open the door and F'n kick him out while doing 100mph+
i cant stand people telling me what to do. if you pay my bills then you can tell me what to do. but other than that STFU~!

You can always count on Joey to be candid. lol. But, this is exactly why it's difficult to coach people. In the me and Joey example, I can at least back up what I'm saying with my times on course. With touge, it's all very subjective.

Joey is the one to say it, but most of us think this way on the mountains. "I'll do it my way, STFU."

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bomjoon
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PostSubject: Re: Constructive criticism...   Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:26 pm

TouringBubble wrote:
"I'll do it my way, STFU you filthy smelly pirate hooker~!."

fixed.
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