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 I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 8:33 pm

So you losing it going around a corner, the rear end comes out, you are now drifting and going way to fast for the next corner.

What do you do now?

What are your methods on how to recover such an incident?
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Jake
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:01 pm

put your head between your legs and kiss your a** goodbye.



lol, anxious to hear everyones thoughts. i usually let off and make sure my wheel is pointed where i wanna go

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:21 pm

That is mainly what I am going for. Cas when I autox'd sunday I lost it big time, almost saved it with some throttle and counter steer. However there was just to much weight swinging around at that point. lol
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:24 pm

I will post the video of this, when I get home tonight.

Mods you really should turn on editing in this section -.-
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:32 pm

Throttle and hope it doesn't trade ends. If you lift it will come around.

Jason was behind me on 180 when I got sideways once. Came in too hot, stayed on the brakes for as long as I could and turned in still on the brakes. Back end stepped out, I could think fast enough to get neutral throttle then got on it enough to pull through the corner.

Without having spent track time that would have been a disaster. Even with experience it was almost a disaster! I was on old Falken RT615s. When they get old, they like to allow for some drifting. Fun if you plan it, but NOT if you don't!!
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:33 pm

PS: tight corners like autocross at lower speeds it's really hard to recover once the rear decides to go.
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SANDERS
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:49 pm

Both feet in! Clutch/brake. Your done... Depends. how far gone you are. Counter steering and gas threw it. AWD FTW! Every situation is different. I was following JP once when his rear end stepped out and throttle/AWD saved his rear! I have followed a car round the track and he tried caring it out, went to gas and he experianced snap back, then the tire wall.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 9:50 pm

I think that was part of my problem, trail braking. I stayed on the brakes to long after I turned in. Since there is a mega front brake bisas the a*s didnt slow down as much as the front, so when I started swinging the rear around there was just to much momentum for the tires to stop.
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J_P
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Tue May 11, 2010 10:04 pm

SANDERS wrote:
Both feet in! Clutch/brake. Your done... Depends. how far gone you are. Counter steering and gas threw it. AWD FTW! Every situation is different. I was following JP once when his rear end stepped out and throttle/AWD saved his rear! I have followed a car round the track and he tried caring it out, went to gas and he experianced snap back, then the tire wall.

Yeah always remember to warm up your tires kids!
If you let off the gas you're screwed. I counter steer, feather the throttle, watch for snap back, and pray. As soon as I feel it coming back around I let up on the counter steer and point and shoot.

I LOVE AWD!
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breel
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 12:10 am

I think you just found the limits of your tires and suspension. To many variables come into play when trying to blind critique a mistake. In most cases when your first thought is to hit brakes, hit the gas
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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 1:27 am

If this happens at autocross, go 2 feet in. In the mountains it's a lot different.

First off, KEEP LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD. You will most always steer the car in the direction you're looking.

If you are really sideways ... you need to balance the car with the throttle (shift the weight to the rear) and get the car in to a neutral slide. At that point, if you're AWD, you use minor countersteer to bring it back in line, then back off the throttle when it settles and set up for the next corner

Problems ... lifting completely will cause the rear to come out more. Shifting the weight too quickly can cause the oversteer to snap the opposite direction depending on your steering input.

It's a little different if you catch it early, but basically the same reaction but with more subtle inputs.

In an AWD car, there is a bit more grip overall when the car finally breaks loose, which makes the loss of traction feel very dramatic. You need to get used to this feeling and pick up on the subtle hints the car gives before it breaks lose. You will learn to correct for oversteer and understeer before anyone else would even know they are happening.

The first time it steps out hard you'll catch the first slide, then loop it the opposite direction. Then, you'll learn to keep it from looping, but pendulum back and forth a few times before saving it. Do that a few times and you'll start to catch it and bring it back in line on the first shot.

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TouringBubble
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 1:32 am

Also, there is a trick that works on most cars (depending on the amount of caster in the suspension) that will help you save a slide much easier ...

Let go of the wheel.

Just for a moment ... the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, directed by the caster of the front suspension, will actually point the wheels in the right direction to correct for the slide. Then, you grab the wheel and hold it in place, making only minor corrections, and balance the car with the throttle.

My method for this is to treat the wheel almost like a non-ABS car's brakes ... grab-release-grab-release-grab until the car is neutral.

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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 5:23 pm

Duke: I find our cars to be overly understeering. Even w/ the suspension I've done and -1.5 camber if you hold a constant radius corner with too much speed, it will push. I'm at 29mm front at full stiff and 29mm rear at medium.

The trail braking plants the front end and works against that.

But you're talking autocross, I'm thinking track. Very different dynamics as I'm in 4th/5th gear, you're probably 2nd mostly.

R-Compound tires make a big difference to balance the STi.
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 5:24 pm

2thAche wrote:
Duke: I find our cars to be overly understeering. Even w/ the suspension I've done and -1.5 camber if you hold a constant radius corner with too much speed, it will push. I'm at 29mm front at full stiff and 29mm rear at medium.

The trail braking plants the front end and works against that.

But you're talking autocross, I'm thinking track. Very different dynamics as I'm in 4th/5th gear, you're probably 2nd mostly. Talking mountains, I'm thinking 3rd/4th gear mostly, trail braking helps on 180.

R-Compound tires make a big difference to balance the STi.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 5:56 pm

I was really talking in general, not just autox. My example was autox cas it was the only time I have lost complete control of this car thus yet *knocking on wood*

I just dont like how the trail braking feels, the rear end feels like it gets lighter.

Now if you are trying to get the car to rotate using the trail braking, that is another story. That is the only instance I use trail braking.

As far as understeer, this son b*tch plows like 12 donkeys strapped to the front it. Doing motorsports of any sorts, I practice straight line braking as much as I can. Then use throttle control to keep everything in agreement. This is the safest thing to do on the mountain, but doesnt always work with autox. I cant compare track yet, cas my poor self hasnt made it out to one yet.
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SPARTA
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 7:16 pm

Duke dont you change you dccd settings when autoxing? You think that has something to do with the understeering?

If not then get some swaybars. Sams ar was very responsive with her new rce setup

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 8:19 pm

SPARTA wrote:
Duke dont you change you dccd settings when autoxing? You think that has something to do with the understeering?

If not then get some swaybars. Sams ar was very responsive with her new rce setup

It plows worse before messing with DCCD setting. I tested that theroy out. My first run sunday I did half of it with the DCCD on auto, then got frustrated with the plowing through a high pin and turned it on for the rest of the day.

If anything the DCCD helped me causing the oversteer issue I had that caused the spin out, but that I was totally my fault for going in way to hot.
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2thAche
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 9:06 pm

LOL how do i have a post quoting myself?
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Wed May 12, 2010 9:21 pm

Cas you are spiecal?
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emperor666
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Thu May 13, 2010 1:05 pm

Left foot on brake, right one on accelerator pedal.
That's how you are doing it.

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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Thu May 13, 2010 2:59 pm

I need to learn how to do that... haha
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emperor666
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Thu May 13, 2010 3:33 pm

I am working on it, helps a lot.
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~The_Duke~
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Thu May 13, 2010 5:37 pm

Ya from the little bit of trying to learn it I have done it seems like it would from a physics stand point. Except I cant get my left foot to do what I want it to that consistantly yet.
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emperor666
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PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Fri May 14, 2010 5:50 am

Long time ago I went to small road that nobody drives, somewhere of Emerson exit on 75, and it took like 3 hours of driving back and forth and braking to make my left foot do what I want on brake.
It's not as bad. Snow is the best way to do so, since you have to brake really soft.
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C_wagginz




PostSubject: Re: I've lost it!!! Now what do I do?   Sun May 16, 2010 2:45 pm

If you're left foot braking and need to downshift, how do you do this effectively? Is this where the "Toe - Heel" comes into play?
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